18: Madison – ‘Start Saying “Yes” to Yourself”

BMRT - Madison

Good afternoon. My name is Dee Yvonne rivers. I'm your host for birth moms, a real talk, a platform with birth moms, share their journey, share their story, share what happened to them, what they experience when they became moms, you will. Surprise. Amazed love all the things that are happening in this adoption community.

We share the real talk. I'm so happy to have with me today. Madison. Welcome back. Hi, thank you. Oh, good to have you, as we said, we're that platform that we'll share the real talk and the real story. And as we say, we have the commonality of all being birth moms, but our stories are different. And we want to hear a little bit about your journey.

Madison, maybe begin with your childhood and tell where you grew up. How was it in growing up and your experience of becoming a birth?

We're a really close family. Um, we always have been, so, um,

I was always really shy. I just have.

W I just have one sister, but I have so many cousins, like very extensive, you know, we're all really close. So, um, yeah, and I, I was always very shy growing up. Um, I kind of just fell behind my sister. She was always very outgoing and loud and, and would just kind of talk for me.

trouble, can you say, let me stop you for a minute, Madison. It was a shock. And your sister was the bad kid is if now you called yourself bad.

Is that what you're saying?

I guess, you know, looking back, I think there was a lot of. Shame and getting pregnant at a young age. I would think I would say that, um, I mean, I, my parents are very, you know, strict Catholic parents and you don't go to church every Sunday. And my sister was kind of a rebel and I was just kind of, you know, I got really good grades and I just kinda kept, I never really made a fuss about a lot of things.

Right, right. How, at what age? How old were you then? How old

were you? Um, I was 19, so I was, I had just started my sophomore year of college.

I was in nursing school. Um, I have a family of nurses. My grandma was a nurse, my mom's a nurse, my older sister's a nurse. So I was just kind of floating on. And, um, I had been in a, a pretty serious relationship for about five years. Through high school. And then we had broken up right before my sophomore year of college.

weeks. Wow. When you said denial immediately, you're seeing the signs, which you didn't want to confirm.

Right. And I had actually taken a test. Um, I would, uh, I, it just, it was negative. Um, so I just kind of kept going about my life and I just, I had kind of had a regular cycles anyways. And so I just didn't really think much of it. And the birth father and me, we were never together. This was kind of, I don't want to say a rebound, but it was just somebody that I dated, you know, after this long toxic relationship, it was very toxic.

say, who was the first person you told

it was actually my mom. I called her immediately after I took the test. Um, and she has been, you know, she was my rock through it all.

Wow. As much as I didn't, you know, felt bad about disappointing her. She took care of me. Like I was, you know, still a child during that time. Like I just couldn't even function.

Do you remember the first thing she said to you when you told her,

she said, I gotta call you back. She wasn't worried.

She later told me she was with, she was with a doctor. And so she essentially. You know, all the blood drained from her face. And he was like, are you okay? Do you need to sit down? And she was like, yeah, I think she was kind of in shock too. Right,

right.

And it was my cousin who had been trying for about five years to have kids. And, um, She hadn't had any kids yet. And so I thought maybe, maybe just maybe, you know, she would want to adopt. It was never.

So your mind had went to, from the time you had the test and was positive, you call your mom and in between the time of you or you talking to your mom, if she called that you had thought about all of this.

I did.

With the doctor and I, they did an ultrasound and they, you know, saw how far along I was. And then I, my mom made me call her and ask. Right. Which I think that it's funny looking back now, these things that my mom was. Try to push me to do. It's like I was technically an adult, but I was, I wanted her to take care of me.

Like I was, you know, not in at all. Um, cause even though I was in college, I was, I lived really close to home. I lived off campus, but I was still close to home and I would, and thank God that I did them close to home. Cause I would, I ended up barely staying at the house.

Wow. Wow. Do you believe Madison that this was your first big step into maturity?

Okay. Okay. So after, so you called your.

So I

texted her and I just said, Hey, can I come over? I want to talk to you about something. Um, and she said, yeah. And so, um, I made my mom go with me and I

was ask her,

well, I was just like, I can't do this by myself. Um, so I went over there and her mom was there, so my mom's sister. And I was like, okay. So they knew something was going on.

little.

Oh, okay. So she knew when you reached out and said she wanted to tell you wanted to talk to her. She knew something was up. She just didn't know what, so she then called her mom to be there. Okay. Alrighty. She was getting, she was getting prepared with her mom and support just like your mom was there was support for you,

right?

So, um, her husband was on a business trip, I think. And so I actually made my mom tell her, cause I couldn't even get the words out. It was almost like, I wasn't really real for me still

to just

Cause I knew that she was having a hard time too. And she just was like, I got to talk to my husband and I'll let you know kind of thing.

So tell me back up a little bit and tell me what your mom's reaction was when you suggest that, um, for her to call your cousin, or you wanted to talk to your cousin about her adapting.

You.

We had some time in between me meeting with my cousin and she kind of laid it out on them and table, like, if you want to raise this child, we'll support you like me and your dad are gonna support you regardless. Okay. Um, we never really talked about abortions. That was just like. Right. I didn't, I didn't want to upset anybody.

So what was your reaction when your mom said to her ear, she and your dad would support you to model what you decided if he wanted to raise her.

I it's such a weird, like, looking back on it, you think I would have contemplated that more because I've always wanted to be a mom that's ever since I was little, that's all I wanted to be a mom so bad.

And I think that even if that getting pregnant or two have happened to me in high school, I would have wanted to parent, I think I was at a point where I was. Just add this transition in my life where I was maybe a little bit more mature than I'm giving myself credit for where I was like, you know, I want, I want this baby to have everything that I had growing up.

cause I heard you say in the very beginning you had a wonderful, close, loving family. And so you wanted to give your child that same thing.

Yeah, I, not that, I mean, like I said, me and the birth father at that point, we weren't, we weren't together.

And there was no plans of ever being together. Sure, sure. Okay. And not that you know, single parent households or. Bad. I just, I, I think that when I looked at this bigger picture of like, I'm so close to starting a real career for myself and I'm, but what am I going to be like as a mom in the meantime, like these two or three years until I start my career as a nurse, like, what am I, how am I even going to be involved?

And how much am I going to rely on my

Okay. So moving on that, how, how long between your cousin's husband came back and she, you heard back.

I think it was probably two or three days. Um, and at that point, I had convinced myself that it was going to be a no from them because it just kind of the way that the, the meeting went. I just thought, you know, maybe this is weird.

But I remember thinking to myself, I don't know if I want anybody else to be his mom. Wow.

You felt at ease or felt more confident for the fact that it was a, her cousin in the family.

That, and I think, like I said, like, you know, she was somebody that if my parents would go out of town, she would watch me, like I think, and I would, I mean, I would go over to her.

You know, for, you know, obviously in like bigger cousin groups. Um, but I wanted, I looked at her as almost a mother figure to myself. And even to this day, her and her husband treat me like I'm one of their kids.

I see what you say. I see what you're saying.

Okay. So I wanted to choose a family that I would want as much.

w it was a, yeah, I stayed, she called me and, you know, it was like, Hey, will you come over? And I was like, she lives kind of like, kind of far. So I was like, well, this is a lot just to tell me no, but then she ended up. Um, you know, they both were there and they both said that they would love to, and you know, that they want to be as involved as I let them be during the whole pregnancy

process.

Okay. Okay. Did you discuss how it would be, whether it be open or how exactly would work?

So actually they had, um, been looking into adoption. They had just had just started the process before I came to them. Okay. Because they were having fertility issues. And I think that they just thought that that might be the way to go.

And so they chose. Um, and so that's kinda how we started the process. We met with this, um, counselor and talked about things and she only did open adoptions at that time. Um, because she said that throughout her years of doing it, she had the most, the adoptees had the hardest time with closed adoptions because of just, um, You know, identity

and cause what year was this for you?

Um, I think I had.

Probably 11 or 12 weeks. Okay.

All right. So for the next, uh, uh, what, four or five months or whatever, how was it? And with your cousin or her husband being involved and how was it with you and balancing school and everything else? Tell me how your life was

school. Actually, it was okay. Cause I wasn't going out with all my friends.

Right right now, were you back on your own and your own place, or were you back with your family, your mom and dad,

um, with,

so you went back with your mom and dad?

Uh, yeah, I was back well, I was living with them, usually I had them on the weekend, but for the.

Okay. Okay. All right. I think we got a little static in damp, but I think we can hear it now.

Okay. All right. All right. So just walk me through for us the next few months. So you're going to your appointments. So tell me about the day of the birth. Let's talk about that.

wow.

Okay. Yeah. So there are 24 years apart.

That's you go then? That's just funny. Um, but it was, this was pre COVID time, so I could have a lot of people there. Um, and I went in that night before to get induced and I ended up not having to get induced. And so he was born in the morning and, um, we did skin to skin while they, you know, stitched everything up.

And,

So during the time before you went home, you saw. The times

I saw, well, I mean, I saw him other times, but I think that's the one regret that I have maybe through this whole process is allowing, cause I mean, you know, my entire family came and then they had their own room and he would sleep with them in their room.

And I think that that's. Yeah. I mean, you just have to, you know, navigate a new normal, it's not normal, but you have

to do that's it. And I think you said the word you're navigating a new normal, that's a good way of putting it. That's an excellent way of putting it. So when, so

even though I don't outwardly say like, oh, this is my son.

Like, I love him just as much. I just, I don't ever want to say or do anything that would make him feel uncomfortable. And he's at an age he's six now. So he, he understands, um, because he knew

that you were his mom. He knows that.

Right. But he doesn't necessarily call me like his birth mom. And I think that might also have to do with the fact that this is an inter family adoption.

right. They don't understand, you know, that you are someone special, you know, whatever he might call you, see someone's special. So is it, is it open that you see him a certain number of times or are you free to see him whenever?

Or how does that working

well before? So they actually just moved, um, across the country. So I. Um, so they moved to like, at the beginning of the pandemic, I would say so almost. Yeah, it's been almost two years, I think. Um, and so before that I could, I would see him like once or twice a month, there was never a set number of days.

And so then I, I felt very, I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. I just, I felt like I lost a friend in the process.

Because all the months you were spending time together, going to the apartments, getting even closer. And then your son comes in and not that he came between the two review, he became part of your

family.

so is it, is it unknown? Let me ask you Madison, is it sort of known throughout the whole family?

So it's not like the whispers or people wondering what the issue.

We had like announced to the family, um, which I, I told her, I think that was harder than telling my parents. It was just like, I don't know. I, I, it was just, it was one of those awkward moments where you're like, this family is not awkward, but at that moment it was.

Oh, they didn't understand what was going on. Right,

Other family members and me, and unless just face it, some, some people just don't know what to say. And they say anything, not really realizing how it may affect. So how are you navigating if there anything that comes up, uh, of that issue. Cause see that as you say, inter family adoption that that's, that's tough when I say it's tough.

That's why I asked does everybody. Because unfortunately, a lot of times inter-family adoption happens and people don't know what's happening or don't recognize it's.

Right. Yeah. And there's always conversations.

Right. And those conversations I'm comfortable having now because I'm 26 and I can, and I'm, you know, I'm about to graduate with my master's. So I was like, I can. Thank you, but I can, I can stand my own when it comes to like that. Because even though now I feel like I'm finally at a point in my life where I'm successful at that point in my life when I was 19, that all was I, that all I had, it was just something that may never happen.

Right. Because you're 19 and you're pregnant and you're scared. Right, right. But no, My family has been great about it, but in the beginning it was hard because there's, I mean, there were times when he would be crying and I would be holding him and someone would, you know, be like, Hey, you know, he needs his mom.

That's I guess those are where those boundaries came in, where I was like, okay, I'm not his Mo.

Right, right. And that's, that's a good word of putting it good word or putting that there because I find that, um, that through the constellation of adoption, that means the triad, adoptees birth moms adopted more.

Open up uncover the true issues of adoption and get the real story from people involved in it, because unless you're involved in it, you really don't know. And I really encourage people to listen to the podcast, like your ear against a glass window and listening to us talk about what the real deal is and the real talk then.

Ken had that understanding otherwise, how can we expect them to understand when they had no clue they have no clue. Absolutely.

Correcting that

I was going to ask you

at the time, you know, I was so soft-spoken, I didn't want to, you know, make any waves. I just wanted him. I wanted to be able to see him. I would have done anything just to be in his life. I would never. I wouldn't say anything. If I was upset, I would never talk to his mom about it.

I would just her, my cousin, you know, I would just, I would keep that all to myself. As I've gotten older. I think that being more open has made our relationship a hundred times better.

Yes.

Yes. And I say, say that again, because when you truly share what your feelings are, that's where true intimacy and how you can grow even closer.

Um, and remember that you're in the open. So you see your son. But some moms don't see them or maybe, and don't see around holidays or birthdays. And we may talk about holidays today because we're approaching that, you know, and it may be certain traditions. You just mentioned what made me think of it while you were holding your son and someone was saying, well, give him to.

And I think as he's gotten older too, It's been such a blessing, even though he lives far away. Now we will always have a bond. And I didn't know that at the time that we would have this unspoken bond between us, but I'll always have that with him. And he knows that I'm somebody that's special in his life.

Not

exactly. That's what he, you're a special person. He may, he may not, he, he probably can't voice a word to it, you know, or he scribe it, but along the way, Yeah. Yeah. So.

It's been an easier transition than I thought it would be when they first moved. Just because they've been so good at communicating with me.

agree. I agree with that. I open relationship. I believe it also with plays a role in reunion.

If there's a close adoption and the child. Once they go know the heritage that adoptive parents, it takes nurture in nature. You've heard me say it not 10 times, but it takes, it takes both nature and nurture. You can't, you can't have adoption without having both you can. I, do you, do you, do you find any similarities between yourself and your son?

Do you sort of see yourself in him with any mannerisms out you look so, whatever, you

That really do make me feel good in the beginning. Obviously he doesn't look that much different than she does. We're all in the same family. So when he was. And she has blonde hair and he has blonde hair and I don't. So I was so a lot of people would just be like, oh, he looks just like you. And for awhile it would bother me because I was like, no, he actually looks like me, but then I wouldn't see it.

And so then now that he's growing up and he's a little older. She'll send me a picture every now and then I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, he does look like me, but it's okay that he doesn't look a hundred percent like me because he's his own person. That's

right.

And at the end of the day, I, as much as I want him to be my mini it's.

sure. Well, you know, just knowing that, that, um, I like to say we've got the same DNA that will never change. That will never change with that. So moving on to is we say we always cover a hot topic per se. You brought up something that, that same, uh, I say worthy of discussion of the time you're in the hospital.

When you had to skin to skin, you were there for 48 hours or a couple of days. And. That Bondi now, uh, situations are different on whether it's close or open. I, um, and I see unfortunate. I wish I had that. Um, that was just not what they were doing with close adoptions. Is that the, that once I heard him, but I didn't see him until.

One who's in the room. Who's there. Whether you get your own time with your child, even if the adopted parents are even there and I've heard different stories. So just tell me. Just what, how, how it was, you sort of explained some of it, but how would you, it worked with you and would help you heal or in speak about what, what healing process you mentioned you were started some therapy, right after you became pregnant.

Did you continue on with therapy?

And so I think that, and I had recognized, she pointed that out to me that mother's day was such a hard day for me. And it still is. I think that's the only thing right now that it's a hard. It's just hard for me. I don't, and I can recognize that and I can, you know, I anticipate that, but

it'll never be before yourselves to that mother say, if you know, mother's day is coming up, what do you do for yourself?

How do you, how do you manage?

Like I always say happy mother's day, obviously, but it's just a weird day for me, because I don't know whether to. I don't know whether to respond to the people that are telling me happy mother's day or cause I'm like, I don't, I don't know. It's a weird day for

me. Why don't you feel like you're a mom, even though you're not parenting your son?

No, really. And that's really weird, but I don't feel. I don't feel like a mom and maybe that's why it's a weird thing for me, because if people do reach out and say like happy mother's day, obviously I'll respond and say, thank you. But I don't, I've never felt like a mom. Okay. Okay. I've always felt more of like a best friend kind of type of it.

I don't

have that maternal and that, that does relate back to how it was in the hospital, because there was that, that line drawn, this boundary that was put up. Um, and I, and my mom did the best that she could in a situation that she had never gone through.

And she was the person that I hid behind this entire pregnancy. And so she was the one who. Encourage them get your own room. Yes. He needs to stay with them. They need to bond with him. And I looked back at it and I've talked to her about this. And I was like, I just wish I would have spoken up and said, Hey, I don't want all of your family here.

Okay. Period of time, you know, you brought up a good point Madison for as, as you, you had those stores, but you didn't vocalize it.

And I truly believe that a lot of us are, many of us will don't have the voice, we'll lose our voice while we're going through that. Cause we were talked about for fours and whatever people may say or think, or the shame or whatever you want to call it. It's like stepping up to who we are. Because whatever happened is the fact that when we became pregnant, we became moms.

Because that was the growing time for you to understand. And I say this with healing healing itself is based on you being able to come to terms with whatever has, has been. And there are many different kinds of trauma, but until we can, whether we wrap our arms around ourselves, whether we cuddle with ourselves, we swaddle ourselves in blanket to basically to meet at SIS.

In other words, just soothe myself. Cause that was my time for me. That was my time for me. Of course, I went back 48 years, I guess it was back in the hospital, but that was my. That was my time. And so through this journey, I've always given to myself what I needed, whether someone else was going to do it for me or not.

I remember calling you Madison. I, I just can't do. I just, uh, get emotions and, uh, I'll cry the whole time. So let's reschedule and that's completely fine. Not apologizing for that whatsoever. And we all have to give ourself the time and whatever we need with that. We do. Let's talk about holidays coming up soon when we're taping this podcast.

What about holidays? What's your holiday tradition? What do you know me doing? Huh?

Okay. I could take off and fly out there and she would be there. The whole family would be welcoming of that, which is good. They always get me a gift every Christmas. Um, I always try to get him something that he doesn't have, but he's the kid that has everything. Um, and he actually, they have a new addition this year.

She ju she ended up, um, getting pregnant. Oh,

wow.

Wow. Which I think is, to me, it's such a blessing. I know that there's a lot of mixed, um, mixed feelings on placing, uh, um, a baby up for adoption. And then that couple, you know, being able to have their own. And I don't know if it's because she's my cousin, but it has been the greatest blessing.

it's a process.

For everybody around me, because only then I can do what I'm here on earth to do. So that's part of me healing and giving myself when I need to be the very best I can be always there for my son in spite of. In spite of whether I hear from them or not, that that never, I never lose that never will lose that.

Never going away. Never going away completely. So this podcast, yeah. Ah, this podcast.

Yeah,

When, what, six years ago you were in with your sophomore year or junior year of getting your undergrad. Yeah. So you living your

life, right? I don't know. And the place that I'm at actually, no, I probably wouldn't be had I parented and that's not a bad thing I think, but I don't like to look at like the, what ifs.

So I want to be here for him if he has any questions, but I also want him to know that I love him. I did this. I love it. I didn't, I didn't. Right.

Selfishly. Absolutely. I think one thing you said about communication between the birth mom, the adoptive parents, and an adoptee, when they he's able to comprehend, that's going to be a big difference.

It's going to be major. When they can have a conversation, everybody understood, understand, understands the whole scenario. It's the, it is the what ifs and a wonder this and a wonder that that can get people. I call stuck in the mud that you get on this, you start thinking, well, what about that? You cannot say wipe up, spilled milk.

And that's the community

car, so, right. Like it does define a lot of people. So you can't let that be your only, the only thing that defines you. It's a part of my story, but I have so much left to

do. Yes. Yes. You have so much

What I could have been saying yes to

that's a good way

since he's been farther away and I can only see him every so often. I've, I've kind of, it's almost like a whole new, new world too, in life to kind of maneuver and figure

out. Yeah. You know, I, I think you just did decided to title start saying yes.

Start saying. Because as you say is we have a life and that doesn't, doesn't take from how much we love our child. That's how our children will always, um, I always speak for myself, understand that people may have different opinions, but always speak myself. My, my child will always be in my life. I have a life.

I mean, there are days I, I, there are days and I acknowledge, okay, this is one of those days. And I don't mind sharing with someone, you know, just as I shared with Madison is like, can you do to stay Madison? Just can't you got to send all the time. And it was okay. It was okay. You know, so get, give ourselves permission for it to be okay.

Give ourselves permission to say yes. Instead of saying no. Yes. To ourselves. That's really what it is, is saying yes to ourselves. Any last thoughts Madison?

There is, we all go through a different journey, but we all have each other's backs and we know every, but we know what we go through. What was that? I

like what you said, we have each other's back. We have each other's back. I like that. I like

just because somebody doesn't, um, know the right things to say.

Awesome. Isn't their fault because they haven't gone through

it. Right, right, right. And about their experiences, you know, we can only know what we have experienced or have the capacity to experience because a lot of times people are just not capable and that's okay. If they're not capable, recognize.

Well, I never thought about that. What was that? That situation? So it's just knowledge and healing. That's what this podcast is. So you've been listening to birth moms, real talk. I'm your host, Yvonne rivers, as we talk real about the story. Other people run away from what are we going to bring it to the surface.